From on Mon, 9 Apr 2007|
Thanks for the very fast response. Whilst I enjoy the detective work of finding names and dates and solving mysteries (the crossword
puzzle aspect) what really interests me is historical causes and motivations.
I should love to know just why John Jackson Whinray and his family moved - was it desperation, or opportunity knocking? What work they
could find when they arrived? Did they stay near their arrival point or head for the outback?
It sounds as though his son Jeremiah took seriously the instruction to go forth and multiply.
Various members of the UK Whinray family are in fact going to stage a reunion (if you can call it a reunion when there has been no contact
between the families for 150 years!) to celebrate in January 2008 the 200th wedding anniversary of John Jackson Whinray's parents, Tom and
Jane Whinray. Any Australian descendants would be most welcome, but I can't see myself phoning Whinrays in Victoria out of the blue and
issuing the invite....
Are you yourself a descendant of John Jackson Whinray?
Just to recap, John J was one of three brothers. What I have which I could readily send if you are interested is:
1. Short summary of history of the Carnforth Whinrays from 1664, and conjecturally prior to that.
2. Detailed notes on the family from 1664 to 1819, when Tom Whinray
and Jane née Jackson for reasons unknown moved 15 miles inland. Then both died within the year.
3. Detailed notes on Jane Jackson's family.
4. UK Census etc notes on John Jackson Whinray's branch, most of whom
emigrated in 1856.
5. UK Census etc notes on Thomas Whinray's branch
6. UK Census etc notes on James Whinray's branch
Unfortunately the family trees I produce on sheets of A2 paper, which
clarify it all, are nigh on impossible to transmit by computer.
I am sending item 4, which is the briefest, in pdf form, to see if
you can read it.
Thomas and Jane Whinray
Thomas Whinray wed 16 Jan 1808 to Jane Jackson at Warton Near Lancaster, Lancashire, England
1. John Jackson Whineray Christening: 16 Oct 1808|
2. Ann Whineray Christening: 06 May 1810
3. Elizabeth Whineray Christening: 11 Aug 1811
4. Catherine Whinray Birth: 24 Apr 1813 Carnforth, and Catharine Whinwray Christening: 16 May 1813 Warton Near Lancaster,
5. Jane Whinray Birth: 24 Jan 1815 Carnforth, Lancashire,
6. Thomas Whinray Birth: 07 Jan 1816 Carnforth,
7. James Whinray Christening: 28 Feb 1819 Clapham, Yorkshire, England
John Jackson Whinray born 20 Sep 1808, Christening: 16 Oct 1808 Warton Near Lancaster, son of Jane Jackson and Thomas Whinray, wed 9 Oct 1828 to Elizabeth Leech born 1805, Christening: 27 Oct 1805 Clapham, Yorkshire, England dau of Mary Windle and Christopher Leech,|
John Whinray aged 47, 20 Sep 1808 - 1882 #5470 aged 70 died 1 Apr 1882 at Geelong Hospital and Burial at Steiglitz Cemetery, Victoria, came to Victoria Jan 1857 on Arabian as Assisted Immigrants surnamed Wheney, with Elizabeth Leech aged 48, 1807 - 1873 #8396 aged 66 dau of Mary Whindle and Christopher Leach of York, Mary Whinray 19 (1837), Catherine Whinray 17 (1839), Jeremiah Whinray 14 (1842), Elizabeth Whinray 11 (1845), Ellen Whinray 8 (1847) and Alice Whinray 5 (1852), leaving Thomas Whinray c1830 and Christopher Whinray c1834 in UK
Christopher Whinnery aged 25 in Jan 1880 on Kent age does not fit to be Christopher Whinray joining his family, may be Christopher Whinray registered June 1849 at Settle
Elizabeth Leach died 11 Sep 1873 in Eclipse, and was buried 13 Sep 1873 at Steiglitz Cemetery, Victoria, Australia
1. Jane Whinray christened 18 Jan 1829 at Clapham, not in 1841 census|
2. Thomas Whinray christened 17 Oct 1830 at Clapham
3. Mary Whinray christened 19 Sep 1832 at Clapham, not in 1841 census
4. Christopher Whinray christened 21 Sep 1834 at Clapham
5. Mary Whinray 19 (1837) in Settle area, Yorkshire
6. Catherine Whinray 17 (1839)
7. Jeremiah Whinray 14 (1842)
8. Elizabeth Whinray 11 (1845 - two of this name, in June and Sept at Settle)
9. Ellen Whinray 8 registered Sep 1847 at Settle
10. Alice Ann Whinray 5 ( registered Sep 1851 at West Derby in Lancashire)
5. Mary Whinray 19 (1837) wed 1865 #4298 to James McCrae and lived at Camperdown
1. Eliz Cath McCrae 1868 #1308|
2. James Leitch McCrae 1870 #1194
3. John Bell McCrae 1872 #7603
4. Mary Roebuck McCrae 1874 #14375
6. Catherine Whinray 17, 1839 - 1897 wed c1862 to William Findlay and lived at Geelong, Panmure
1. Jane Findlay 1868 - 1875 #2253 lived 7 years|
2. Alice Rebecca Findlay 1872 #9100 - 1876 #8992 aged 4 years, mother called Mary Hobnell
3. Wilhelmine Findlay 1879 #11004
4. George John Findlay 1881 #11327
7. Jeremiah Whinray 1842 - 1895 #7579 aged 52 died at Wilby, wed 1868 #2459X1873 to Sarah Twite, and lived at Moorabool
1. Mary Ann Whinray 1868|
2. Anne Whinray 1869 #5468
3. Ellen Whinray 1870 #17885 - 25 Jan 1872, lived 1 year
4. John Whinray 1872 #10851 - 15 Oct 1873, lived 1 year
5. Elizabeth Whinray 1874 #4219 - 1928
6. Jane Whinray 1875 #18041 - 1920 #8085 aged 44
7. Thomas Jeremiah Whinray 1877 #10383 - 1845
8. Rose Whinray 1879 #10755 - 1951 wed Nailor
9. James Whinray 1880 #23970
10. John Whinray 1883 #13545 wed Ethel Jones
11. George Whinray 1885 #22669 - 1935 aged 50
12. Ethel May Whinray 1887 #15624 wed 1914 #6716 to Archie Walter Holland
13. Robert Henry Jackson Whinray 1888 #34627 wed 1910 #5597 to Lily Jane Wright
14. Eliza Ellen Whinray 23 Jan 1892 - 13 Nov 1968 aged 76, wed 1919 #10727 to William Walters Rosser 5 Feb 1890 - 20 Jul 1872 aged 82
1. Mary Ann Whinray 1868 wed 1888 #3754 to Robert Harling born in Yorkshire, and lived at Yarrawonga, then after 1894 at Wilby
1. Wm Ernest Harling 1889 #8772|
2. James Robert Harling 1890 #18857
3. John Harling 1892 #9266
4. Fred Harling 1893 #18309
5. Jane Harling 1895 #8050
6. Alex Harling 1897 #23685
7. Gordon Harling 1898 #30032
4. Elizabeth Whinray 1874 #4219 wed 1897 #7026 to Arthur John Ashman 1866 #7884 born at Brandy
7. Thomas Jeremiah Whinray 1877 #10383 - 1845 wed 1906 to Elsie Mary Holland|
See Buerckner family page for Martha who wed on 20 Feb 1937 in Tungamah, Victoria to their grandson, George Jeremiah Whinray son of Thomas Whinray and Elsie Mary Holland, born on 25 Feb 1908 in Beeac, Victoria. He died on 19 Jul 1979 in Yarrawonga, Victoria. He was buried on 21 Jul 1979 in Tungamah, Victoria.
1. George Jeremiah Whinray 1908 #5897|
2. Vivienne May Whinray 1910 #29744
3. Thomas Desmond Whinray 1912 #13197
14. Eliza Ellen Whinray 23 Jan 1892 - 13 Nov 1968 aged 76, wed 1919 #10727 to William Walters Rosser 5 Feb 1890 - 20 Jul 1872 aged 82, born at Corowa NSW, son of Christina Johnson and William Walters Rosser, 8 chn.
8. Elizabeth Whinray 11 (1845) wed 1869 #442 to William Baillie from Nova Scotia and lived at Steiglitz (near Geelong?), Moorabool and later at Yarrawonga
1. Lavinia Jane Baillie 1869 #25286 - 1 Oct 1873 #11233 lived 3 years|
2. Alice Catherine Baillie 1872 #12355
3. Donald Baillie 1873 #24111 - mother's surname Whinrey born at Geelong
4. Thomas Jeremiah Baillie 1875 #12634 has son still living
5. Elizabeth Leach Baillie 1877 #17280 - 1878 #1722 lived 4 months
6. John William Murdoch Baillie 1879 #10754
7. Robert Athol Baillie 1882 #13223 - 1886 #7899 lived 3 years
8. Jessie May Baillie 1884 #6590
9. Kenneth Edison Baillie 1887 #33149 - 2 daughters
From on Fri, 15 Jun 2007|
I am a descendant of John Jackson Whinray and Elizabeth Leech. His daughter Elizabeth married William Baillie whose youngest son, Kenneth is my grandfather. Kenneth had two daughters, Janita Marie (my mother) and Valerie. Janita had 11 children and Valerie had no children.
We are all living in Australia and would be interested in seeing details regarding the Whinray family. My grandfather died when my mother was only 18 and they never kept in touch with his family so we are currently trying to track them all down now.
Very grateful for the information you have posted on your website as I know Primrose Tayler (Baillie) who I have just discovered tonight is my second cousin relayed the information about a reunion. Gotta love the web.
Rachel Elverd (Murphy)
Christopher Whinray c1834 wed 1886 #1575 to Mary Ann Pigdon 1865 at Darriwell, Victoria, lived at Yarrawonga, then Wilby.
1. Thomas Christopher Whinray 1890 #18837|
2. Jane Ann Whinray 1894 #16947
3. Mary Elizth Whinray 1905 #7064
11. Alice Whinray 5, 1852 - 1881 #3266 aged 28, wed 1875 #30 to Abel Roberts 1846 #14790 christened at St James Church, Melbourne. Lived at Yarrawonga.|
Abel Roberts wed (2) 1884 #992 to Anne Lonsdale and had 3 Children to 1888
1. Elizabeth Jane Roberts 1879 #5677
This came from Paul White, with whom we have lost contact.
THE JOHN JACKSON WHINRAY LINE |
Thomas Whinray and Jane née Jackson had 3 sons, John Jackson born 20 Sept 1808, Thomas born 7 January 1816 and James, probably born early in 1819; and 4 daughters. The move to Clapham became a disaster. Jane died, presumably in childbirth, and was buried the same day in February 1819 that James was christened. Thomas was left with six surviving children all aged under ten. Perhaps the stress was too much for him: he died the following year. How exactly they survived and who looked after their financial interests remains unclear, but I have found five of the six in the 1841 Census, so survive they did and they had the capital for all three brothers to set up in business.
John Jackson Whinray, the eldest son, married Elizabeth Leech (born about 1805 at Clapham, died 11/9/1873 in Australia) on 9 Oct 1828 at Clapham. In the 1841 Census, he is found lodging in Austwick and working as a cattle dealer. He may have been unsuccessful, because ten years later he is an agricultural labourer in Toxteth, Liverpool, but he and the rest of the family (with the exception of the eldest son Thomas) decided to emigrate and arrived in Australia on the Arabia in January 1857. He died 1 April 1882.
His son Jeremiah married Sarah Twite in Australia, and they had fourteen children. I assume some of these moved on again, to New Zealand, where there is a Whineray National Park, and Sir Wilson Whineray is one of Rugby Unions’s legendary players, captain of the best ever All Black side. But this may have been a separate emigration.
In 1891 at 67 Wagstaff Street, Toxteth Park
Thomas Winray 58 1833 Clapham, Craven Cattle dealer
Thomas died at Toxteth Q1 1895, unmarried as far as I can ascertain
In 1881 at 31 Grey Street, Toxteth Park
Thomas Whinray 48 1833 Clapham Cow keeper
Elizabeth Wright 60 1821 Wigton, Cumberland Dom serv
James Nelson 16 1867 Liverpool Dom. serv.
In 1871 at 28 Avison Street Toxteth Park (indexed Whinsay)
Thomas Whinray 39 1832 Clapham Cow keeper
Christopher 20 1851 Clapham Cow keeper (nephew)
Elizabeth (widow) 46 1825 Wigton Servant
Anthony Metcalf 10 1861 Lancaster Scholar
In 1861 at Newby
Mary Leech 77 1784 Clapham
William Leech 53 1808 Austwick unmarried son, ag. lab.
Christ. Whinray 11 1850 Clapham grandson
In 1861 in Toxteth Park
Thomas is a boarder in the house of John Walton. Occupation cattle dealer.
In 1851 at 7 Court Holland, no. 7, Toxteth Park Liverpool
John 40 1811 Lancashire Labourer, farm
Elizabeth 44 1807 Clapham Yorks
Thomas 20 1831 Clapham Yorks
Jeremiah 8 1843 Clapham Yorks
Elizabeth 5 1846 Clapham Yorks
Ellen 3 1848 Clapham Yorks
In 1851 at Eldroth Hall
Mary Whinray 14 1837 Clapham House servant
In 1851 at Manor House, Ingleton in the house of Edward Harrison
Jane Whineray 22 1829 Clapham House servant
In 1851 at Coldcoates, Ingleton
Fanny Mason 62 1789 Hesket, Cumberland Late farmer’s wife
Christopher Winneray 1 1850 Clapham (lodger)
Fanny might be the widow of Isaac Mason of Bentham, llabourer
In 1841 at Watson House Austwick, in the household of Thomas Oldfield
John 1811 cattle dealer
Thomas 1816 butcher
(In the same household, the wife and daughter of Thomas Oldfield and Ann and Alice
Windsor, 50 and 40 respectively.)
In Newby, in the household of Mary Leech (independent means)
NB This is the mother of John Jackson Whinray’s wife
Elizabeth Whinaray 1806 née Leach or Leech b 27 Oct 1805
Thomas Whinaray 1831
Christopher Whinaray 1835
Mary Whinaray 1837
Catherine Whinaray 1840
John Jackson and Elizabeth christened the following children
And elsewhere (or possibly in a non-conformist chapel rather than C of E)
c1839 Catherine ?1839 Settle
Also Jeremiah Q 3 1842
Elizabeth 1846 Q2 1845 Settle district
Ellen 1848 Q3 1847 Settle district
Reply to Fiona Jenkin
Hi, Thankyou for writing to me.
It is very hard to imagine the way people thought in 1690, 320 years ago.
So much has changed - the world is no longer believed to be flat, with Hell below, and Heaven a place one could ear one's way to. Nor is it possible in Australia, to imagine what it is like living where women have no say at all - though many of our New Australias come from places where that is how things are.
The circumstances in France and Gerany, where religion was in turmoil, as the iron grip of the Pope and his Catholic machinery allowed them to kill people who disagreed - was on one side of a boundary, and by crossing the water, you could get away from such conditions.
Education, even 60 years ago when your mother was a girl, was restricted to the School Readers. I was a teacher 50 years ago, and the upheaval caused by the Baby Bomers parents - ones who had survived the WW2 and were going to make a workd of free speech, freedom to do as you like, freedom for children to not be disciplined, added to the development of television with its films of women wearing short skirts, of young men with long hair being idolised (the Beetles), advertisements of women with new appliances, using special washing powder, being the whitest clothes in the street - all did their bit to push commercialisation and erode individual choice ...
What do you think you have developed, as a person, different to your Grandmother?
And she in turn was not like her ancestor Alice, daughter of a man from Novia Scotia and woman from English parents? People who migrated rarely came because they were comfortable at home - those that did come to 'show you colonials how to be 'proper'', sometimes found their children had few prospects to marry 'their own kind'.
The records of 1690 were chiefly in Latin. England was in the grip of SmallPox, and of other poor conditions. About 1730 church records began to ge generally written in English, a language just developing spelling. It took the rise in printing presses, producing weekly newspapers, giving people materal to read, which led to spelling getting sorted out, then typewriters helped
Elizabeth Janson's web contributions
began 1st Nov, 1998.
Home, Wharton or Whiteside
© Say thanks to